Protestantized Catholics Tuesday, Mar 4 2008
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I’ll first point out that the purpose of this post is not to bash protestants but to point out that many Catholics would make good protestants and that’s not really a good thing, because if your Catholic, be Catholic and go all the way otherwise it doesn’t make any sense.
Over the years as I have grown and become more knowledgeable about my faith I have noticed that many Catholics are moving to a ‘newer feel good Catholic church’ known as the charismatic movement. And although I will go into that more deeply in a later post what I really want to talk about it the way that the Church is taking a turn and not for the best unfortunately into becoming more protestant which can probably be traced back to the charismatic movement.
I myself am not a traditionalist but am just a Catholic who does his best to follow the teachings of the Church. I have taken notice recently at a disturbing change in the Church and that is manly that we are substituting our Catholic culture for the protestant culture. Paul did a post about the art in the Churches now-a-days and how it is either completely absent or is ugly or is pleasing to the senses only and is not very meditative. We see this trait in protestant churches, either they have no art because they say that it’s distracting or they have art that’s very modern and plan, just for decoration, not for a person to venerate or to meditate on. Many people may argue that its easer then for a person to convert because its closer looking to the church that they just came from. Hmmm… I don’t know about you but to me that’s stupid reasoning; most people convert because they found something, The Holy Eucharist. Our priests and bishops must recognize that we must have buildings that reflect that.
This problem is also infecting our religious education, not only in CCD classes but in the general knowledge about what people know. How does one connect this with the protestantation problem you may ask? Simple, because our churches are adopting the culture of other churches we start to water down our own teaching. I know a bunch of people that don’t think that little kids should know anything about Hell. So, then you’re saying Our Lady was wrong when she showed the children at Fatima a vision of Hell, and then because Mary’s will is the will of God then God is wrong, then if God is wrong you are the only one right… wait a minute… you are then placing your-self above God, I wonder how lightly God is going to take that on judgment day. Another example is that last month I was in a class to become a Eucharistic minister (I no longer am, it’s not my place) and a question was asked. “What about people who are in a similar situation to the soldiers that were trapped on small islands for months when we invaded Japan, could they then offer they’re own mass if they have bread or what ever, because I hardly think that God would care then.” What the heck was he thinking, the priest then explained to him that if there are certain things you can only do if you are married than there are only certain things that you can do as a priest the, the two sacraments are very different. I found my-self thinking, ‘Man how can you embarrass you’re self like that and not care.’ This is a man who I often wonder why he is Catholic.
Probably the biggest thing that happened to make the Church more protestant is the music!!! I went to an alter boy appreciation in my diocese and during the mass they had this band with a guitar, drums, tambourine, ect for the mass. Before the mass even started he was introducing the band members (like they do at some concerts) and at the drummer he said, “… and this is Bob on the drums, where they (drums) belong, in the Church!!” does this sound like a jab to you or is it just me!? His name wasn’t really Bob by the way, I just don’t remember his name. Then they started playing and the mass started. Durring the consecration I was trying to meditate on the passion and the crucifixion, but I couldn’t do it. After the mass I did my thanks giving and was thinking what Our Lord and Our Lady would have thought, rather, did think about the mass, I came to the conclusion that I’m sure that Jesus wasn’t head banging on the cross or was rockin’ out on the cross. This answer came to me when I went to a mass at the friary a couple days later, and everyone who goes there knows how beautiful and reverent the mass is. There we sing a mixture of Gregorian and traditional hymns and if you are a person who dosen’t know what a mass without a guitar sounds like you should make a visit, it’s beautiful. And how is this and protestantization connect? Because protestant’s don’t have the Eucharist and thus make they’re praise through mostly song. Don’t get me wrong some of it does sound good but come on, we are Catholic, we have our own way of singing to God; you don’t need to go to another source. The mass is the same sacrifice that happened on Calvary, the only difference is that there is no blood, there is no other difference!!! Let me ask you something, if you were there during that first mass and saw Jesus barley recognizable because of his wounds (The Passion of the Christ went easy on the way he looked by the way, in the movie I don’t think that he was scourged more than 120 times all together), would you be at the foot of the cross with your guitar and your drums next to Mary, St. John, and St Mary Magdalene who where crying so much that there eyes were swollen, and start to play a song. Or would it be more appropriate to be singing the Salbat Mater, or to just kneel in deep prayer?
I will have a future post on music so for now I won’t go too deeply into it but I think that the change in the music plays a big role in the protestantized Catholic Church. We are Catholic not protestant, please act it. And again if you are a protestant this post is not picking on you in any way but is simply telling Catholics to straighten up and be themselves.
Master Paul Xavier
Illustrious marceg
Miss Angela Rose
Tuesday, March 4, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Couldn’t have said it better!
It is ridiculous to see how much our Church has changed..and not for the better let me tell you!
Like the other day, some of my “Catholic” friends said something to me regarding this issue. They were telling me how they wish that our church could have a band on the altar to make the mass more enjoyable and just to make it more relaxed and upbeat! Also that we should have girl altar servers and eucharistic ministers to get the women and the people more involved. Oh goodness, I didn’t even know what to say at first I was so disturbed. Finally I yelled “Are you crazy? The mass is not supposed to be fun at all! It is supposed to be holy and reverent! How can you concentrate on the Passion of Christ when there is an electric guitar twanging in the background? No, you do not have a band on the altar of God and you definetly do not have women up there! And don’t even get me started on Eucharistic ministers!”
Don’t people get it? Obviously not! Instead of drums and marracas we should be requesting more Latin songs and prayers and getting rid of the Protestant ones! And how about bringing back the altar rail! People receive Communion so irreverently these days! And how about putting up tradional art that is so much more realistic than some the filth that is in churches these days! It makes me crazy how so many people can stand to go to an ugly Church that is supposed to be God’s house! Aren’t we supposed to give God the best that we can?
You’re right..so many of our fellow Roman Catholics are going downhill these days!
They either need to show that they care about their faith and smarten up, or they just need to stop being Catholic altogether and stop disgracing our name!
(Sorry if that was a little harsh.. but it is such a serious problem!)
Tuesday, March 4, 2008 at 8:45 pm
(I’m a Protestant, and I’m not arguing with anything, really, just clarifying)
Just for clarification…the Anglican and Lutheran churches are often very beautiful with many works of art, at least the older ones. The other Protestant churchs are some what descended from the Reformed Protestant tradition which originally believed that any graven images were idoltrous. (sp?) Which is something I think is rather sad, and wish that we tended to have more art around. (Martin Luther actually liked the art, believe it or not. =)
I won’t go into the music at all, since I happen to like pretty much all kinds…I will say though that they did use drums and tamborines in the Old Testament to praise God…and there are certainly many verses about making a Joyful Noise…but perhaps this would be better for Catholics in a context outside of Mass? However it seems that the Easter Ressurection would call for many sounds of loud praise!
Also, again, I’m not a Catholic, but my father was raised a Catholic and his personal acceptance of Christ came after he was involved with the charismatic youth movement (because of that he was also able to lead his own father, who hadn’t gone to church for many years, to Christ as well.). I have a nearby neighbor (she’s Episcopalian now) who I believe also made her personal commitment in the charismatic movement. So which it may have had some problems, I think it accomplished some good things too.
Wednesday, March 5, 2008 at 1:14 pm
First I must praise Marc for such an accurate post! I was planning on writing on the state of Catholics in the Church, but I’ve been rather busy with several other ideas. I did address the issue of art before, and I think Marc goes even further into detail.
Elena,
When Marc speaks of ‘Protestants,’ he isn’t necessarily referring to any particular sect, but rather just the ‘idea’ of them in general. They have slowly been wandering further and further from the traditional rite, along, as Marc said, with art in Churches. One official thing I hate is when they make the Mass like a ‘celebration.’ It is in a way a Celebration of the Eucharist, but many people just get the wrong idea, and treat it has the weekly get together. Sometimes my blood just boils.
But as Marc said, often enough, there is actually nothing wrong with that music. But the problem is that it lacks the reverence and devotion due in a Catholic Church. That is what separates Catholicism from Protestantism. Catholicism clings to Tradition, while Protestantism often enough conform to the modern world. I’m not necessarily speaking particularly about you, but I’m referring to what I see in the Anglican and Episcopal Churches…
Wednesday, March 5, 2008 at 2:16 pm
So not to be a stickler but I do have a concern, the priests should not be singing “Happy Birthday” on Christmas or “God Bless America” on Memorial Day either? Songs like Danny Boy should be refrained from at Irish Funerals in the church, etc. These are not Catholic traditional songs either, but have their place in certain cultures. Granted the “Rock & Roll” beat do not exist, but they do exist and because of the “music” question being pondered it creates its own controversy.
Wednesday, March 5, 2008 at 6:15 pm
In my opinion happybirthday would be ok only after the mass and would only be appropriate if there were a lot of children at the mass. When it is said to particapate durring the mass the only particapation that matters is our participation through paryer and meditation, not through song or even understanding what is being said at the mass, thoes are all good and important things but not as high as prayer and meditation. If happybirthday is sung durring… lets say… presentation of the gifts, its not condusive to meditation. As to you’re other examples, Danny Boy, if I were a priest, could only be sung at the grave yard after the blessing, God Bless America does infact mention the word God in it and is ‘cultural’ but the church does have its own culture and should have an unworldly sense to it, people sould go to a Catholic Church and feel like they have arrived to the gateway, to the gateway to heaven (since St. Bonadventure describes the mass as not God comming down to the alter but us being lifted up to heaven). And don’t get me started on the beat with the Rock and Roll music, music is the language of the soul and if,,,, well i’ll do a post on it later, so I won’t get in to it. But again this is just my opinion and especally after watching The Passion of the Christ I’m on ‘fire’ about being reverent at Holy Mass.
Wednesday, March 5, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Hmm. Well, we don’t celebrate “Mass” per se…actually, when we take communion, the music tends to be much more reflective- very similar to catholic services that I’ve been to. (Still guitars though, but not wild. Gentle.) Our wilder, celebration songs are earlier in the service, when we are specifically praising God. And also, we usually start with the faster songs, and move to slower ones to encourage the proper mindset.
But, as I said before, I really do appreciate all kinds of worship. For me, the perfect church would be a blend of all differant styles.
But there is a also a growing movement in the church to be more “user-friendly” that leaves those of us longing for something deeper rather…dry. Even within my own church (which is really a pretty good church, as churches go), my parents have had some concerns.
Thursday, March 6, 2008 at 10:30 am
Yes, I understand that Protestants do not celebrate the Mass, but rather a ’service.’ Which is where your opinions on the issue of Music clash. You see, the Mass is but a reiteration of the Sacrifice of Our Lord on Cavalry. Christ being offered up as the perfect sacrifice for our sins. (I.E., Christ being raised to His heavenly Father as a sacrifice on the Cross, and in the Mass, being offered up to God by the Priest. The Sacrificial Lamb of God. To fully understand the nature and reverence which is due in the Mass, one must fully believe in the Divine Presence of Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist.) So, to a degree you are right. Guitars and different types of Music are perfectly fine with different types of Religious services. Outside the Church. Once again, there is a fine line between the Catholic Mass and Protestant Services. So what may be acceptable at one, may not be acceptable as the other. Marc gives clear explanation of this. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is a reflection of Cavalry, so we must not ‘conform’ to ideas and influences from outside the Church, but rather, give God the Reverence and Honor which is due to Him, as we stand by Our Lady’s side, at the foot of the Cross.
I hope this is a clear explanation for you, as no matter how much we discuss here, we shall reach different ends, since as a Catholic, we have different ’services’ than you, and as a Protestant, you have different ’services’ than us. So we will never be able to come to a sound agreement on what is actually acceptable in a Church. But you are right in saying that some music ought to be reflective. But to have guitars strumming and drums beating at the Mass, is a lack of reverence to the Divine Mystery being offered there. There are many Catholic musicians who use Guitars and such to praise God, such as John Michael Talbot, and the like. And that is perfectly fine, since altogether, there is nothing officially ‘wrong’ with that type of Music. But I shall repeat again, with the Mass being the Sacrifice of the Body and Blood of Our Lord, we need more reverence and something to help us meditate on His Passion and Death.
Personally, I’ve always been one for Gregorian and Latin Chant/Music. Particularly in some movie soundtracks. The scene of Edward’s Son’s marriage in Braveheart struck me. Not the wedding in itself, but rather, the chanting in the background. I searched for nearly 3 months before being able to find that particular track. Also, I normally listen to plenty of chant or even Medieval Period music of the Church when I write. Rather to get me into the spirit of the True Catholic Knight, and his love for God, King, and Church. (A bit random, but I thought I ought to add a bit of this since I actually to listen to it.)
Thursday, March 6, 2008 at 5:48 pm
I totally understand the differance between the Mass and a Protestant service…although your post, as always, made it even more clear. But I do understand that differant music styles fit the differant contexts differantly. I did want to explain though that we do treat our communion differantly than the rest of our service…just trying to aquit us of any disrespect there. (In the music, aspect, at least.)