Comments on: Guilty of Heresy? http://catholicdiscussion.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/guilty-of-heresy/ The Musings of a Wandering Knight Sun, 03 Jan 2010 23:29:02 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: professional http://catholicdiscussion.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/guilty-of-heresy/#comment-3573 professional Mon, 04 Aug 2008 01:18:37 +0000 http://catholicdiscussion.wordpress.com/?p=412#comment-3573 Hello. I think you are eactly thinking like Sukrat. I really loved the post. Hello. I think you are eactly thinking like Sukrat. I really loved the post.

]]> By: Master Paul Xavier http://catholicdiscussion.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/guilty-of-heresy/#comment-2226 Master Paul Xavier Thu, 01 May 2008 23:59:01 +0000 http://catholicdiscussion.wordpress.com/?p=412#comment-2226 Basically speaking, I wasn't openly condemning the Gabriel Project, but rather posing the question of "What is this, some heretical gesture?" I have family and friends who also volunteer in the Gabriel Project, so this isn't a personal vendetta against the project, but my intention is simply raising the question of 'why' such a statement is the logo of a Catholic Organization. In the issue of helping mothers in such situations, I am all for it, as we all are human beings, and Christ said Himself "What you do to the least of my brothers, you do to me." Such works of Charity and aid must go on. As I said before, there may not have been failure of theology intended in the title, but one is suggested. And in simply reading the brochure, that is the idea which enters my mind. We must constantly be aware of such statements, as the are what make the first impressions on the reader, to draw them in. (Which it does to mothers and women in such situations.) But is it proper to word it in that manner? Not so; they could easily have used: "Rejoice, Fear Not!" These were the words of consolation the Angel Gabriel declared unto Mary at the Annunciation. (At least that wouldn't arouse the confusion about the term 'unexpected pregnancy.') Indeed, all heresy is error, and all error is not heresy. So though the brochure suggests something which may 'sound' heretical, it may indeed be accidental, and unintended. But from a quick glance, that is the impression I receive. I probably should have written a letter concerning it before I posted such an article, but the reason I hesitated was for fear of being given the runaround. I have written letters to other Catholic Organizations, and it all ended indisappointment. Thank you for being charitable in your comment! :) And regarding Jay Charles' comment, I'll get back to that one soon. Basically speaking, I wasn’t openly condemning the Gabriel Project, but rather posing the question of “What is this, some heretical gesture?” I have family and friends who also volunteer in the Gabriel Project, so this isn’t a personal vendetta against the project, but my intention is simply raising the question of ‘why’ such a statement is the logo of a Catholic Organization. In the issue of helping mothers in such situations, I am all for it, as we all are human beings, and Christ said Himself “What you do to the least of my brothers, you do to me.” Such works of Charity and aid must go on. As I said before, there may not have been failure of theology intended in the title, but one is suggested. And in simply reading the brochure, that is the idea which enters my mind. We must constantly be aware of such statements, as the are what make the first impressions on the reader, to draw them in. (Which it does to mothers and women in such situations.) But is it proper to word it in that manner? Not so; they could easily have used:

“Rejoice, Fear Not!” These were the words of consolation the Angel Gabriel declared unto Mary at the Annunciation.

(At least that wouldn’t arouse the confusion about the term ‘unexpected pregnancy.’)

Indeed, all heresy is error, and all error is not heresy. So though the brochure suggests something which may ’sound’ heretical, it may indeed be accidental, and unintended. But from a quick glance, that is the impression I receive.

I probably should have written a letter concerning it before I posted such an article, but the reason I hesitated was for fear of being given the runaround. I have written letters to other Catholic Organizations, and it all ended indisappointment. Thank you for being charitable in your comment! :) And regarding Jay Charles’ comment, I’ll get back to that one soon.

]]> By: joanne http://catholicdiscussion.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/guilty-of-heresy/#comment-2220 joanne Thu, 01 May 2008 19:19:30 +0000 http://catholicdiscussion.wordpress.com/?p=412#comment-2220 Paul X, I didn't give you the world's definition, Paul X, but the definition from the Catholic Catechism. My point is that your use of it deviates from Catholic teaching, and that you are using your casual definition in criticism of a Catholic ministry which is not only for potentially abortive women (in great need of mercy) but for any pregnant woman who needs assistance. That includes married mothers in difficult circumstances. The Gabriel Project is certainly Catholic in its foundation and its actions, therefore Marian as well, whether or not one author failed to be precise in his/her theology when writing the brochure. You see poor theology and denial of truth where there was none intended. All heresy is error, but all error is not heresy. You have mistakenly abused the Catholic definition of 'heresy'. Does that make you a heretic? The word 'obstinate' is a key word in discerning heresy. I see that you are not obstinate; already you are reconsidering your views and comparing them to the truth as taught by our Church. I don't suspect you of heresy, nor do I announce publicly that others should judge whether or not you are a heretic. If I did, our Blessed Mother, Virgin most merciful, Mirror of Justice, Queen of Peace would not be pleased. Again, I do agree that some audiences might flinch and misunderstand the use of "unexpected pregnancy" as used in the brochure. I still think that your best course of action, therefore, is to write a respectful letter communicating your concerns to: Gabriel Communications Box 283 Cheltenham, PA 19012 or send a charitable email to: Mail@GenerationLife.org For more information about Gabriel, please see the website, http://www.gabrielproject.com/ I am sure the national Gabriel Project organization can address your objections effectively. You may even find you'd like to become involved with the Gabriel Project yourself! I hope you do. God works in mysterious ways. Peace, A Gabriel volunteer Paul X,
I didn’t give you the world’s definition, Paul X, but the definition from the Catholic Catechism. My point is that your use of it deviates from Catholic teaching, and that you are using your casual definition in criticism of a Catholic ministry which is not only for potentially abortive women (in great need of mercy) but for any pregnant woman who needs assistance. That includes married mothers in difficult circumstances.

The Gabriel Project is certainly Catholic in its foundation and its actions, therefore Marian as well, whether or not one author failed to be precise in his/her theology when writing the brochure. You see poor theology and denial of truth where there was none intended.

All heresy is error, but all error is not heresy. You have mistakenly abused the Catholic definition of ‘heresy’. Does that make you a heretic? The word ‘obstinate’ is a key word in discerning heresy. I see that you are not obstinate; already you are reconsidering your views and comparing them to the truth as taught by our Church. I don’t suspect you of heresy, nor do I announce publicly that others should judge whether or not you are a heretic. If I did, our Blessed Mother, Virgin most merciful, Mirror of Justice, Queen of Peace would not be pleased.
Again, I do agree that some audiences might flinch and misunderstand the use of “unexpected pregnancy” as used in the brochure. I still think that your best course of action, therefore, is to write a respectful letter communicating your concerns to:
Gabriel Communications
Box 283
Cheltenham, PA 19012

or send a charitable email to:
Mail@GenerationLife.org

For more information about Gabriel, please see the website, http://www.gabrielproject.com/

I am sure the national Gabriel Project organization can address your objections effectively. You may even find you’d like to become involved with the Gabriel Project yourself! I hope you do. God works in mysterious ways.

Peace,
A Gabriel volunteer

]]> By: Jay Charles http://catholicdiscussion.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/guilty-of-heresy/#comment-2206 Jay Charles Wed, 30 Apr 2008 22:14:18 +0000 http://catholicdiscussion.wordpress.com/?p=412#comment-2206 Really, now. Do you think Mary is rejoicing or calling her lawyers (assuming there are any in heaven) over the fact her name is being used to save the lives of the unborn? Really, now. Do you think Mary is rejoicing or calling her lawyers (assuming there are any in heaven) over the fact her name is being used to save the lives of the unborn?

]]> By: Master Paul Xavier http://catholicdiscussion.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/guilty-of-heresy/#comment-2203 Master Paul Xavier Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:53:03 +0000 http://catholicdiscussion.wordpress.com/?p=412#comment-2203 Thank you for your comment. Actually, the word 'heresy' often does get abused, or rather, re-defined by the modern world. My use of it is simply as the definition states. A heresy is a deviation (rejection of 1 or more beliefs, yet retaining certain others,) from the Church's teaching. The wording on the pamphlet gives me the impression that their view of things is somewhat different than the Church's teaching; though the views of each and every member of the Project holds may indeed be different than what the phrase suggests. I am in no way trying to dissuade anyone from participating in such a Project, but rather pointing out that if the Gabriel Project is supposed to be 'Catholic,' it ought to act so in every way possible. The Gabriel Project's intention is to reach out to woman who may be considering abortions, etc; thus such a reach out to them would be necessary, but the only thing that really bothers me, is how the statement 'seems' to take away from Mary's title. Thanks for the info! It's great to see that some dioceses are actually noticing it. There are many things which the Bishops have failed to put their foot down on. Thank you for your comment. Actually, the word ‘heresy’ often does get abused, or rather, re-defined by the modern world. My use of it is simply as the definition states. A heresy is a deviation (rejection of 1 or more beliefs, yet retaining certain others,) from the Church’s teaching. The wording on the pamphlet gives me the impression that their view of things is somewhat different than the Church’s teaching; though the views of each and every member of the Project holds may indeed be different than what the phrase suggests. I am in no way trying to dissuade anyone from participating in such a Project, but rather pointing out that if the Gabriel Project is supposed to be ‘Catholic,’ it ought to act so in every way possible. The Gabriel Project’s intention is to reach out to woman who may be considering abortions, etc; thus such a reach out to them would be necessary, but the only thing that really bothers me, is how the statement ’seems’ to take away from Mary’s title. Thanks for the info! It’s great to see that some dioceses are actually noticing it. There are many things which the Bishops have failed to put their foot down on.

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